1973 Monte Carlo S

[hetman]

I got the numbers off the trim plate of the 73 Monte, and here they are. Can someone decode them for me? I know that the 11 means antique white, and B means black (vinyl roof, in this case). But I'm lost on the rest. I also have the build sheet, and will try to upload it.

Body by Fisher
ST 73 1AH57 Z 139370 BDY
TR 708 11 B PNT
01C 139370 940 352



Now I understand, from a GM restoration pack, that Z is the factory that built the car, the 708 refers to black vinyl swivel buckets and 11 is the antique white paint and B is black vinyl top. The lower line includes a number that is also on the build sheet, but this 6-digit number does not correspond to the VIN, like my yellow 73 Monte has on its build sheet (which does correspond to the VIN). So I don't know what's up with that.

[x]

Glad you are posting all of this over here, Mike ... thanks!

Love those swivel seats.

And, I wonder if it would work to put a first gen front end on a 2nd gen MC....hmmm......



Cort | 35swm | "Mr Monte Carlo"."Mr Road Trip" | pig valve.pacemaker ...Chitown #2 = 07/25/09
WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = www.chevyasylum.com/cort
"My world is changing" ... Faith Hill ... 'Where Are You Christmas?'

[twomanymontes]

I love that car! It's white, it's got a big block and just plain cool!

[hetman]

I don't think I would have deliberately chosen this color, but I have to agree with the old school thinking - you can't go wrong with refrigerator white for an understated muscle car. This car doesn't even have any badges showing off what it can do, nor racing stripes, nor spoilers, etc. Just pure muscle. I wouldn't have it any other way!

[twomanymontes]

Yeah, but it's white! Thats all that matter for me! LOL!

[drix76]

Mike, I stole a couple of your interior pictures for reference to give to my upholstery shop.

I wonder what that hybrid would have looked like, that diagram is really interesting to see, and very cool that you noticed that!

[hetman]

Mike, it is interesting what you find in company literature, especially what is pre-production. I'm still wondering about that TH 375 transmission!!

Swipe as many pictures as you'd like! I'm glad to be of assistance. The white Monte's interior is mint and complete, thank God! Even the original dash is 100% crack-free, which, for a desert car, is hard to believe. The car must have been garaged its whole life. But what about your dad's 73? Isn't it in good shape, or is the interior cloth, and you needed vinyl reference shots?

[drix76]

Mar 26, 2009 4:53:44 GMT -5 hetman said:

Mike, it is interesting what you find in company literature, especially what is pre-production. I'm still wondering about that TH 375 transmission!!

Swipe as many pictures as you'd like! I'm glad to be of assistance. The white Monte's interior is mint and complete, thank God! Even the original dash is 100% crack-free, which, for a desert car, is hard to believe. The car must have been garaged its whole life. But what about your dad's 73? Isn't it in good shape, or is the interior cloth, and you needed vinyl reference shots?

My dad's 73 has a bench seat, not buckets. I need pics of the original pattern on the swivel buckets. I know they were mostly all the same, with only slight variation in the center portion through out the years. I want something original, but I want to work some med. gray into the seats to break up some of the all black. I tried to print some pictures I had saved so I could take them to the shop today, but my ink is all jacked up and I have to go get new ink tonight.

Mike, I realize that I have an email from you from probably 2 weeks ago, I'll write you back asap!!

[hetman]

I went for a cruise with some locals here in Warsaw yesterday, and took along my son Matthew in my white 73. My friend was driving my yellow 73 Landau. We had a lot of fun! Especially leaving all those new German machines in the dust...heh heh.

[85t5mcss]

Looks like u had good weather too. Man, those front plates r huge.

[hetman]

Don't get me started on those gay plates!! LOL. I simply left them off the yellow 73 and red 74; I keep them in the trunk in case any questions are asked, but in truth an American car with American plates gets a complete pass from all cops and radar traps - it's like having diplomatic immunity.

Here's a short video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFbsKvNq0Nc

[85t5mcss]

Aug 11, 2009 2:39:04 GMT -5 hetman said:

- it's like having diplomatic immunity.

Wouldnt that be sweet.

I didnt realize stateside plates were even valid.

I dont believe anything is valid here except US, Canadian, and Mexican. Maybe its more of an insurance issue. In Mexico, to drive u MUST have Mexican auto insurance.

[twomanymontes]

Awesome!!! At my favoreite eating establishement no less! LOL!



"Look Daddy! it's one of those 4 letter words I can't say!" LOL!

great pics Mike! looks like you guys had a great time. And yeah, diplomatic immunity would be sweet!

[x]

Aug 11, 2009 19:29:08 GMT -5 85t5mcss said:

Aug 11, 2009 2:39:04 GMT -5 hetman said:

- it's like having diplomatic immunity.

Wouldnt that be sweet.

*nods*

Oh my yes.

Aug 11, 2009 20:15:09 GMT -5 twomanymontes said:

"Look Daddy! it's one of those 4 letter words I can't say!" LOL!

LOL!!!!!!! Nice caption on that pic, Dave!


Mike ... sweet pictures. Thanks for sharing those with us ... sure is cool to see those cars over seas!



Cort | 35swm | "Mr Monte Carlo"."Mr Road Trip" | pig valve.pacemaker ...RT 66 = Sept 5-16, '09
WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = www.chevyasylum.com/cort
"I am tempted to keep the car in drive and leave it all behind" ... John Mayer ... 'Why Georgia Why'

[hetman]

Hey folks! I've been away a while due to sickness of my two boys and in fact all of us for the past several months!

So today I went to the garage to put the white 73 on jackstands for the year...well actually I wanted to drive it one last time today with my son because the weather was ideal and no rain or even salt (though it snowed heavily 3 weeks ago and there was plenty of salt, by now it's all clear). But last time I drove the Monte, I noticed a slight clunking sound in the left rear wheel area, especially when giving a bit of gas. It almost seemed like the wheel was about to fall off! There was play back there and I thought maybe, perhaps the lug nuts were coming off, so today first thing I checked them and they were tight! Bummer! I mean, that's good, but what the heck is going on that there's this clunking noise coming from the axle? Even when the car's on the ground, you can pull the wheel toward you, back and forth, and there's this clunking noise from behind the drums. It's not the wheel bolts, as far as I can tell, after taking off the wheel and drum. They all seem solid, but there's a good bit of play back and forth like when you try to take off the wheel. Not in the direction the wheel travels, but side to side. This can't be good!!

What is wrong? Did I do too many smoky burnouts? Did I toast my axle? Are the C-clips broken and the half axle about to fall out on me? That would suck royally, and probably it would be on YouTube for all to see... So I'd like to avoid that, and find out what the heck is going on back there and fix it before springtime. The car has a factory 2.73:1 posi in the 8.5" 10 bolt. But though I've heard those axles are strong, and the factory even used them behind big blocks, I wonder if my engine hasn't proven too strong for the poor axle. And I've treated the car pretty nicely, right? I mean, I haven't been drag racing or anything my wife wouldn't approve of (at least not that she knows of...LOL). Did I waste the axle, or is there something simple wrong? If I have to fix anything, I'd like to beef it up a bit so it can handle 700-800 HP, because eventually I might add a Procharger. The engine runs strong and I'm sure it puts out some good HP and torque numbers. Would the gears themselves be damaged? Or just the C-clips? Could the half axles be damaged? If I upgrade, should I get new half axles and C-clip eliminators (I think C-clips are the weak link here and would just as soon get rid of them)? Should I go with 31 or more splines? Can I use those half axles with more splines with the gears I currently have, or would I have to buy new gears too? I don't want to do that, because I love the 2.73s and would not want to change the gearing, and since it already has posi, wouldn't that be good enough, or might I have to buy a new gear set too?

I await the sage advice that I know exists here...

[twomanymontes]

Ok Mike, Sounds like you have a u-joint issue to start. Makes a clunk when accelerating or stopping, That would be the first thing I'd check.

As for the play back and forth, thats normal, These cars had about a 1/16-1/8" play from the factory, The only thing you can do is remove the "C" clips and have custom ones made about a 1/16" larger, it wil take out some slop. Need to, I don't think so, But if the play bothers you, then it's a good idea.

"C" clip eliminators, I have no experiance with, other than knowing they do leak from time to time. The gears should be able to be swapped as well as the carrier, the posi unit inside the carrier will need to be swapped if you choose to change to 31 spline axles.

If your really looking to beef up the rear, you need to find a 12 bolt w/posi out of a Chevelle SS, it will bolt right in and will hold up to just about anything you throw at it. Plus it will still look stock as compared to say a Ford 9".

hope this helps Mike

[hetman]

Dave, thanks for the tips. I should check the U-joint; hadn't thought of that. But it seems strange that it would be the problem with the left wheel seemingly loose (and not the right one). I think it was FlynBrian on CT with his turbo Monte that mentioned recently that he'd broken a bearing in the C-clip, so I'm wondering if there's something wrong with my C-clip. I've never taken them apart so I don't know what they look like or how to diagnose what's wrong by feel or experience. If it's something serious, I'll want to beef up the whole axle. Finding a spare 12 bolt over here is like basically impossible, and importing one would be asking to pay a fortune in shipping duties, but axle shafts and even carriers would be reasonable to ship. But not the whole axle.

[blazerteam]

Found you Mike ;D.Well,it seems like its time to check out that axle now if its got too much slop in and out or up and down.Like said over here,it shouldnt be too big..so check that first.

If its too much slop in and out,your axle shafts are probably junk.They have some miles now,or??.I have new axle shafts on my Chevelle.You cant go drifting with old junk,you know ;D.

If it hasnt got any excessive slop,i would have taken it apart just to check for any metal or slop in the axle that holds the spider gears.It can be pretty damaged from all the miles..and if it isnt,you can change oil and know that it will work for many miles..

Arild.

[hetman]

Hey buddy!! Thanks so much for joining and adding your expertise to this little corner of the net.

Someone suggested that it might be a broken tooth in the gear set somewhere. Are the axle shafts weak enough to be of concern as well? I do not want broken parts (though they are a sure sign of making too much power...LOL). The point here is that there is something definitely wrong in the rear end, and it is definitely different than it has been normally. In other words, there is something new going on, and not right. There might be some play normally in the shafts/axle, but on the left side there is about as much as 1/4" or possibly more and you can move it back and forth (in and out) while the car is on the ground. Something is loose or broken.

This car only has 96,000 original miles, but about 1000 miles with the built 454. When I take it apart, I'd like to know what to look for, piece by piece, step by step. Will I have to take off the drums and get to the axle shafts, as well as the rear differential housing cover?

To rebuild, do I need new axle shafts, and if so, should I go with quality race parts, such as 31 spline shafts? And that means a new carrier and gears, right? What is the best type (springs or cones) and brand?

Thanks for the input!

[twomanymontes]

Mike, A broken tooth would be a clunk every rotation at lower speeds, plus your speedo would be jumping when it clunked.

Best thing to do, now that it is up on blocks for the winter, is to pull the rear cover and investigate it.

[hetman]

OK, I just spent about 4 hours in the garage before it got dark (by 4 pm), so I had to head home. I'm going to show some pictures of what I did and see what you say. I opened up the differential housing but didn't unbolt anything inside. I didn't see any noticeable damage anywhere! Something's definitely wrong with that; It's a big FAIL so far...LOL. I checked the U-joints in the driveshaft and they seem tight. I turned the driveshaft around numerous times while the housing cover was off, and didn't notice anything unusual. The axle spins relatively easily in the forward direction, but it's very hard to turn in the reverse direction. Transmission is in neutral. The housing cover looked like it had never been off, with a nice thick old covering of Arizona sand mixed with some oil. But no drips or leaks from the differential were evident. The seal there was tight and good. However, the oil inside seemed new; it must have been changed by the previous owner in its 15-year "restoration" period, and I've only put about 1000 miles on the car. There were no metal shavings anywhere, not at the bottom of the housing nor in the oil, or in the bucket after I drained the fluid. Frankly, I'm stumped. I wanted to get your opinion before I take out the axles. I assume it's possible for something to be wrong inside, but I couldn't see anything from just having the cover off. The gears themselves have some slight evidence of wear, but nothing bad. The car has 96,000 miles on it, and the differential looks nearly brand new. I noticed numbers stamped on the gears, including 72 (year of production?) and 41:15, which would be 2.73:1. The Posi tag was also untouched.

Please let me know what you think. I also need to know if I have a Chevy style axle and not a Buick Olds, because the repair manual says they're different. There are some letters painted on the gears twice, saying "A/O".

Here she is, on 6 ton jack stands:





Look what fell out of the right brake drum!! It's bent up a bit. I don't know how this happened, but is not related to the problem.



Plenty of Arizona crud, but no rust!



Cleaned it up a bit.



Dripping out its juices!





Those particles on the cover are crud that fell onto it while it came off. No metal.



15:41



A-O













Cover cleaned up before reinstalling it to protect it and the gears. I don't know when I'll be able to get back to the car and didn't want to leave it open.

[twomanymontes]

Mike, Thats equalizer bar most likely fell out because the brakes were not adjusted fully, if the shoes spread out too far, then it falls. Now That could be the clunk noise, It appears that it's contacted the heads of the wheel studs a few times, Other than that, I don't see anything that I would be concerned with. Don't waste your money on a gasket, I use black Silicone sealer on the covers all the time. Don't forget when you put it back together ADD THE POSI ADDITIVE!!!!

[hetman]

Dave, I hope that the fallen out equalizer bar is the only problem. But it seems hard to believe because I thought the sound was coming from the left side and the bar fell out of the right side. Incidentally, I found out why it fell out - the spring that holds it in was not correct for the application and the previous owner simply put in some mega-weak spring. No wonder it fell out. If I don't find anything obviously wrong with the axles, I'm going to just put it back together and hope for the best.

Today I took advantage of the 40 degree weather and sunshine and was out in the garage 3 hours, during which time I cleaned, sanded, primed and painted the differential cover. I left the gasket on it, since it is stuck on very hard and undamaged. So you suggest I silicone the other side? I guess it wouldn't hurt. There were no leaks whatsoever, but that's no guarantee it'll seal up properly this time.

I also unscrewed the little bolt holding in the pin in the gears, and took them out, and then pushed in the axles and took out the C clips and then removed the axles. There was absolutely nothing wrong that I could see. It was getting dark by then so I'll go out there again and try to do one more thorough inspection of everything just to see if there's not some problem. So far everything looks great. So I am a bit stumped - what would have given me the impression the left wheel was loose? If the clunking sound was the equalizer bar rattling around in the drum, OK, I can believe that. But why did I think there was something else wrong, and from the left side? There is a bit of side to side (in and out) play in the left axle shaft, about 1/8 to 1/4", but as you said, some play is normal. Perhaps I never noticed it before. But I hope I'm not missing something important!!

The left bearing looks like it has started to leak slightly, so now's a good time to replace both of them.

[twomanymontes]

Mike Sounds travels, I've been burned a few times when wheel bearings make noise on the left side and turn out to be the right side.

Ok, the spring tension has to be there, otherwise it will rattle, But the shoes need to spread wider than the bar for it to fall out. And yes, a smear of silicone will work fine

Change the seals now while the axles are out.

[x]

Oct 31, 2009 10:59:01 GMT -5 hetman said:

I've been away a while due to sickness of my two boys and in fact all of us for the past several months!

Yikes...that doesn't sound good. Flu? Colds? Or? Hope ya'll are better now!



Cort | 36swm.IL | "Mr Monte Carlo"."Mr Road Trip" | pig valve.pacemaker ...drive south, Nov 09
WRMNshowcase.legos.HO.models.MCs.RTs.CHD = www.chevyasylum.com/cort
"Just an everyday distraction" ... Ronnie Milsap ... 'Button Off My Shirt'